Core
Saurus Warriors - These troops are notable because they some of few in the game that are natively Strength and Toughness 4; truly, these are the defining features of their profile and solidify their spot as a rugged combat block. However, these are in no way the equivalent of Chaos Warriors and anyone that tells you otherwise is kidding themselves. First off, Weapon Skill 3 is average for any unit and below average for a dedicated combat unit, and it relegates to unit to having average damage output at best unfortunately. Even with two Strength 4 attacks per model, these are outdone in terms of damage output by Dark Elf Black Guards who have a higher Weapon Skill and Initiative - in addition to many other advantages - that leave Saurus behind as a mediocre unit in terms of damage output. Predatory Fighter does give them some light boosts but the reality is that it will usually only lead to a few extra hits even with a sizable unit; remember that the extra attacks generated by Predatory Fighter only work for the front rank (from a purely rules-as-written interpretation) and they are at that lowly Weapon Skill 3 anyway. One also shouldn't forget that units can still only make one supporting attack, meaning only the front rank of Saurus units get their full two attacks per model. What absolutely kills this unit is their Initiative 1 and lack of Strength bonuses provided by weapon upgrades, leaving them at a decent but hardly special Strength 4. Being Initiative 1 means that any single Pit of Shades or Purple Sun of Xereus will kill 5/6 of a unit; if a template somehow hits every model in a unit (possible with the large blast marker) from a regiment of 40 Saurus, for example, then on average roughly thirty-four or thirty-three will be slain outright. This doesn't even begin to factor in that almost all combat units will not only strike before them but any unit with Always Strikes First - even Zombies, for heaven's sake! - will benefit from the re-rolls provided by having equivalent or higher Initiative as well.
This unit will take losses in combat before it can strike against almost any enemy, it is mediocre in terms of damage output and it usually doesn't stack up very well to proper dedicated melee units - unlike Skinks, they also share that average Movement 4 with most other infantry in the game. So what are Saurus actually good for, then? While Chaos Warriors with the Mark of either Nurgle or Tzeentch plus shields are pretty much the be-all end-all in terms of points-denying Core units, Saurus are significantly cheaper per model and are still quite difficult to shift. Each model is Toughness 4 with a 4+ armour save and 6+ parry save at just over ten points per model, making them among the tougher units in the game for the cost - at least before you factor in their Weapon Skill deficiency. That they are Leadership 8 with the Cold-Blooded special rule means they are incredibly unlikely to run away unless they are either subject to a Leadership-reduction spell or have actually managed to lose their Steadfast bonus. When you consider how difficult a sizable unit of Saurus Warriors is to shift - especially when provided Stubborn by either Gor-Rok or a character with the Crown of Command - losing their Steadfast bonus won't happen too often at all, and rolling 3D6 discarding the lowest dice on Leadership 8 gives them an incredibly small chance to run away. Of course, Saurus are a perfect recipient of augment spells, particularly from the Lore of Light; while Hand of Glory from High Magic will solve the issue of their low Weapon Skill, providing them with the Speed of Light or Birona's Timewarp (in conjunction with High Magic) will turn them into super-efficient combat units. The reality is that Saurus just aren't that great in a meta about maximising damage output to deal with all the rampant death-stars and monstrous cavalry going around, though they are at least a solid combat block built around its good survivability when weighed up against the points investment.
Competitive? Yes.
Skink Cohort - These really aren't as efficient as they could be, especially once you start looking at the truly terrible Undead Core units in the Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings army books. Skeleton Warriors armed with hand weapons and shields are a far more attractive unit than a Skink Cohort at an equivalent price, despite being most assuredly a poor unit themselves compared to the Core regiments of other armies. The idea behind a Skink Cohort is to provide you, as a Lizardmen General, with a cheap tarpit or throw-away unit with models so inexpensive per-model that you could care less if they die or not. However, any unit that is Toughness 2 with a 5+ armour save and 6+ parry save as its only defences - especially when it is Weapon Skill 2 - will just drop like flies far too quickly against anything, even other Strength 3 Core; god forbid what Elven Spearmen of all things will do to Skinks in close combat. Their damage output with that aforementioned Weapon Skill 2 and Strength 3 is pathetic and equivalent to Skeletons, where their higher Initiative 4 is outdone by the latter unit causing Fear. It doesn't help that even with Cold-Blooded the unit is very likely to fail the first Leadership test it takes with a ridiculously low Leadership 5; who cares if you have a big Steadfast block if it sheds models by the dozen and will fail more Leadership tests than it passes? When your unit doesn't compare well to an Undead Skeleton Warrior unit - remembering that Skeletons are built around being resurrected and have easily accessed buff spells - it may as well be useless as anything but a cheap bunker unit.
Being Movement 6 with light shooting attacks in the form of lustrian javelins does give them some nice little added value but ultimately I'm just not sold on those elements when Skink Skirmishers provide them in a far better package that is actually good at what it sets out to do. But hey, you can add Kroxigor to the unit; you know, those Monstrous Infantry models that have three Strength 7 attacks each and have the survivability to match a well-armoured Ogre. My response is this; who cares? The rules for adding Kroxigor to a Skink unit have been changed quite badly with the unit no longer being treated as "Unique", making it vulnerable to Stomps, Thunderstomps and other certain spell effects. Seeing as enemies can choose to target the Kroxigor if they are in base contact with a Skink, this does mean only the front rank of a unit can attack the Kroxigor specifically which I guess gives them some minor defensive boost when compared to being by themselves, but having to pay at least one hundred to one hundred and fifty points to have enough models as a buffer makes it a bad trade overall. Kroxigor with their mediocre Weapon Skill and three attacks each also cannot make up for the sheer rate at which Skinks bleed combat resolution; being Toughness 2 models with pathetic Weapon Skill and saving throws ensures that this unit will almost always lose combat unless it faces something along the lines of a Zombie horde. The problem here is that you are almost always better off with a Saurus unit if you want a proper combat block, while Skink Skirmishers perform the role of Core chaff in a way Skink Cohorts cannot emulate. Additionally, Kroxigor are better off by themselves in the Special slot where they don't need to inflate the cost of the unit to add some truly pathetic would-be ablative wounds. Skink Cohorts aren't necessarily terrible units but there is very little reason to ever use them, I feel.
Competitive? No.
Skink Skirmishers - While the profile might be identical to the above unit and many of the same issues still apply, Skink Skirmishers are an entirely different entity to Skink Cohorts altogether. While other armies could care less for the fortunes of Skink Cohorts, anyone with even a basic grasp of the importance of the movement phase in Warhammer Fantasy can tell you they were waiting with baited breath for any changes to these and the Special Chameleon Skinks. There is almost no competitive army in the game that can get away without chaff of some kind and Skink Skirmishers may as well be the bees' knees in this regard, being a Core chaff unit that possesses almost all the special rules and equipment you could possibly hope for. If your opponent hasn't faced against them yet, then be sure not to warn them as these (and particularly Chameleon Skinks) will put the fear of Sotek into any war machine crews or monsters you face. The profile is about as unimpressive as it could be for a unit of its cost per model, but when you remember that these are Ballistic Skill 3 Skirmishers that are Movement 6, the only actual stats you care for stand high and strong. Just forget about combat; Weapon Skill 2 and Toughness 2 with virtually no armour means they should never get into a melee, no matter how you buff them - but then, why would you waste spells on a cheap Skirmisher unit aside from raising their Ballistic Skill with Hand of Glory?
The reason these are so good is that they are Movement 6 and can march and shoot with their Poisoned ranged weapons; for these kinds of units, the fragility and combat prowess are entirely unimportant. Once ten of these get into range of your typical three-wound war machine, they will pretty much make their points back; that they can march 12" and still shoot means they have all they need to be a constant thorn in your opponents' side. If you stick with blowpipes, a unit of ten will fire twenty Poisoned shots from 12" away; if they move but are in short range - or don't move and are at long range - they will need 6s to hit, but each 6 wounds automatically as it is Poisoned. This means that your basic unit of ten will average three Poisoned hits, equalling a dead war machine if it is your typical kind with just three wounds. If you fire against a monster with weak armour saves such as a Tomb Kings Khemrian Warsphinx, you are likely to take off two wounds at a time per shooting attack. For a unit that is so ungodly cheap, they absolutely devastate war machines and monsters, while being your usual mobile chaff unit that fits perfectly because it is a Core choice. As for the choice of blowpipes versus a lustrian javelin and shield, the former will be virtually useless by needing 6s and 4s (negating Poisoned shooting) if the wielders move and are at long range, though once they start needing just 6s they are easily the best shooting weapon on average. The javelins are inefficient as a shooting weapon compared to the blowpipes but some might say giving the Skinks a 5+ armour save - and a 6+ parry save in combat - as well as being able to Stand and Shoot regardless of enemy proximity is worth the trade-off. As the javelins share their Strength with that of the Skinks, you can buff them with Wyssans' Wildform, though using it on Skirmishers that rarely hit may as well be a waste of time. My personal experience says that the slight boost to defensive capabilities aren't really worth it given how often the unit will be fleeing - especially with Leadership 5 - and they should never be in combat voluntarily anyway, while the blowpipes are statistically likely to kill a single war machine per turn provided they need 6s to hit and not 6s and 4s.
Competitive? Yes.
Thank you all for reading this entry in my Lizardmen Unit Overview series! This set of mini-reviews is intended to act as a brief introduction to each unit and army special rule in the Lizardmen army book, providing some insights into how they function competitively without going into nearly as much length as my proper Tactica articles. Even if you aren't a fan of Lizardmen, I hope you can find something useful from this series for use in your games either employing or fighting against the warriors of Lustria! Don't forget to have a nice day and please leave any feedback you have in the comments section below - all critiques are appreciated!
I only recently discovered your blog, but I can say I'm positively enamoured with the Fantasy Tactics, as I have only recently came back into the game, so they're really helpful.
ReplyDeleteYou have any intentions of doing Ogre Kingdoms or Wood Elves next? They used to be my main armies, but boy have they changed!
My plan is to do a WHFB Unit Overview series simultaneously with each 40K Tactica series, so Ogre Kingdoms and Wood Elves should be in the near future. After Lizardmen I am planning on covering the new Legions of Chaos units or unrelated rules introduced in the new End Times: Glottkin book, with either Tomb Kings, Daemons of Chaos or Orcs and Goblins being next on the list.
DeleteYou are definitely selling the skroxigor unit short in this review. You didn't even mention their ability to get poison attacks in close combat. they are by far the lizardmens best answer to monstrous units.
ReplyDeleteYou may say wait sharpened horns on stegadons in clearly the way to go. but this is a serious trap to fall into because of how extremely random that answer is, not to mention that your opponents cavalry and chariots will be looking for every opportunity to charge your stegadons anyway. you cannot guarantee that you will get the charge off. most monsters and monstrous units are probably faster than the stegadon anyway making it even less likely that they will be able to utilize this ability.
The only other real answer to monstrous units (especially flying ones) that the entire book has is death magic on a slann. which is not nearly as reliable.
Trust me, or do the math skroxigor units with poison will murderize pretty much all of the units that the saurus loose to. There is also the opportunity for the opponent to make mistakes on which models they should be attacking, do they go for maximum combat resolution by attacking the skinks or do they try and limit the damage that the kroxigor will do? It is a decision that is not easy.
In the end the proof is in the pudding I have fielded my skroxigor unit many times and they do me massively better than just another block of saurus. (Especially since temple guard are so much better than vanilla saurus anyway). It adds another tool to my box that allows for a more varied response to my opponents threats.
Skink Skirmishers and Chameleon Skinks are way more useful than "Skroxigor" units against monsters, because they never have to get into close combat and can avoid it with ease while fulfilling a dozen other necessary roles in a competitive list.
DeleteAs for "math", let us do that, shall we? Let us assume the "Skroxigor" unit is ten-wide, three deep so as to make the most of the Poisoned Attacks and the Kroxigor, as well as a musician (swift reform because of their massive footprint) and a standard bearer (for static combat resolution which this unit lacks). That equates to twenty-four Skinks and three Kroxigor, which with all the add-ons mentioned plus Poisoned Attacks totals up to 338 points. We will pit them against the equivalent points (or as close as possible) in dedicated combat monsters from recent army books. All fractions are rounded the closest whole number, and in the case of even splits they are rounded up. All of these examples give maximum benefit to the "Skroxigor" by assuming the monsters charge the front (if they charge the flank, the monsters win hands down in a slaughter).
WAR HYDRAx2 (one with the Flaming Breath, one with no upgrades) 340 points - The Hydras are 100mm wide in total, meaning all three Kroxigor plus fourteen Skinks (horde formation) can attack. The Skinks strike first for seven hits, two of which are Poisoned. The five hits result in one additional wound for three wounds caused, resulting in one unsaved wound. The Hydras strike back, with the breath weapon at Strength 4 causing 7 hits on average for six wounds leading to five dead Skinks. The Hydras get fifteen attacks (minus one from sixteen for losing a wound) which hit on 3s and wound on 2s, leading to ten hits, nine wounds and eight dead Skinks (one parry). The Kroxigor strike back; due to their 120mm total width, two must go on one Hydra and one on the other. Seeing as they need 4s to hit with 9 attacks total, this means it is impossible to kill one of the Hydras assuming average rolls, even the one that already suffered an unsaved wound. Assuming the 6 attacks go on the wounded Hydra, that is 3 hits for 3 wounds, reducing the Hydra to one wound. The other Kroxigor gets 2 hits and 2 wounds, reducing the other Hydra to three wounds. The two Thunderstomps from the Hydras average out to seven hits for six wounds leading to six dead Skinks (no parry from stomps). The Hydras do a total of nineteen wounds to the Skinks, while they in turn suffer a total of six wounds. As 19 Skinks of the 24 have died, this means that two of the Kroxigor move forward into the front rank. If it was the Dark Elf turn, the one-wound Hydra will regenerate two wounds, while the three-wound Hydra will regenerate one wound. With 5 Skinks left, they will not kill the Hydras before they strike and will be lucky to do even one unsaved wound, meaning the Hydras can strike back at the Kroxigor or Skinks if they want with a maximum of twelve attacks hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s against the Kroxigor, which would lead to two dead Kroxigor on average. The "Skroxigor" unit lacks the damage output to win now, let alone survive for another round of combat.
WINNER - Hydras
Kharibdyssx2 (same base dimensions as Hydras) 320 points - With Weapon Skill 5 and Initiative 4, this is where the Skinks are forced to rely on Poison to harm the monsters and cannot rely on killing them before they strike. With five Strength 7 attacks each, the Kharibdyss' will direct onto the Kroxigor with their 10 attacks, hitting on 3s for 7 hits, wounding on 2s for 6 wounds in total, meaning two dead Kroxigor (no saves allowed). Seeing as the attacks are resolved simultaneously between the Kharibdyss' and Skinks, only the 14 Skinks still get to attack as before for the exact same result - two Poisons, one wound caused for three wounds total inflicted on the Kharibdyss' leading to two unsaved wounds (4+ armour save). The single Kroxigor strikes with three attacks at the wounded Kharibdyss, hitting twice by needing 4s to hit, and wounding twice by needing 2s to wound for another two unsaved wounds. The two Kharibdyss' Thunderstomp the unit at Strength 7 as with the Hydras, leading to six dead Skinks. The Kharibdyss' have caused a total of twelve unsaved wounds as opposed to the "Skroxigor" four unsaved wounds, while both Kharibdyss' will get to strike next round. Even if the remaining Skinks manage to kill the wounded Kharibdyss it will still get to make its attacks, and seeing as only one Kharibdyss' is needed to kill the remaining Kroxigor this means it is free to attack the Skinks. Once the Kroxigor are all dead and only Skinks are left, even the one remaining Kharibdyss (on full wounds most likely) will easily win the combat.
DeleteWINNER - Kharibdyss'
One Khemrian Warsphinx (upgraded with flaming breath, fighting at a 110 point disadvantage) 230 points - The total width of this is 50mm, meaning only two Kroxigor and six Skinks maximum (three wide, horde) can fight it. If the Warsphinx attacks the Kroxigor with everything, the four Tomb Guard attacks will need 4s to hit and 3s to wound for two unsaved wounds, while its four attacks will need 3s to hit and 3s to wound, leading to a further two unsaved wounds. The breath weapon causes an average of five casualties against the Skinks as it is also Strength 4 like the War Hydra's. The six Skinks will average two hits with one Poison and no wound, while the Kroxigor will average 3 hits (needing 4s to hit) and one wound (needing 5s to wound against Toughness 8 with their Strength 7) for at least one unsaved wound and a probable unsaved wound, for two lost total by the Warsphinx. The Warsphinx then Thunderstomps (we've done the math before at Strength 5) for another 6 dead Skinks. The Warsphinx has caused nine unsaved wounds while the "Skroxigor" have dealt it two unsaved wounds, meaning the Warsphinx wins the combat. In the next round, the Warsphinx again targets the Kroxigor, but as the Tomb Guard need 4s to wound we can assume at least one armour save will be passed of the three total inflicted by the Warsphinx and crew for another two unsaved wounds total. This will leave just one Kroxigor (as four wounds were dealt last round) on full wounds. If we assume the Kroxigor does an unsaved wound even with only 2 hits needing 5s to wound, we can then say the Warsphinx would pass that armour save from the Poisoned Skinks, or vice-versa, leaving it with 2 wounds left. The Warsphinx does another Thunderstomp for another 6 dead Skinks, leaving just the one Kroxigor and now 7 Skinks as 2 and 17 have died out of the 3 and 24, respectively. Even throwing in a few extra Skink attacks, if we assume the three unsaved wounds caused last round will happen again against a Kroxigor assuming average rolls, and the Skinks do one unsaved wound per two round (remembering the Sphinx and crew strike before the Kroxigor), the Warsphinx will just barely come out of this engagement the victor between Thunderstomp and regular attacks - also remembering that it should statistically pass another armour save of the three combat rounds - which is pretty amazing considering it is 110 points short of the "Skroxigor". There's a good chance the few remaining Skinks win, but given the points differential between these units that really isn't a bad thing at all.
DeleteWINNER - Khemrian Warsphinx
Arachnarok Spider (no upgrades, 50 points under the "Skroxigor") 290 points - This is a 100mm wide base, meaning that 14 Skinks (7 front, 7 support in third rank) in total get to attack as well as all 3 Kroxigor. The Skinks strike before the Arachnarok and its crew with 14 attacks, needing 4s to hit. This means 2 Poisons and 5 regular hits, leading to one wound for 3 wounds total. Same math as before, meaning the Arachnarok loses one of its eight wounds. The Arachnarok strikes back with its eight goblin attacks needing 4s to hit and 3s to wound the Skinks for 4 hits, 3 wounds, one passed armour save and a failed parry for 2 dead Skinks. The Arachnarok itself strikes the Kroxigor with 8 attacks needing 3s to hit, 3s to wound with a 6+ save possible from the Kroxigor. That is 5 hits and 3 wounds for one dead Kroxigor, then a Thunderstomp for between 1 and 6 kills on the Skinks - we will just say 3 for now. The two Kroxigor strike back with six attacks needing 4s to hit for 3 hits, then 3s to wound for 2 unsaved wounds dealt, or 3 unsaved wounds dealt in total versus the Arachnarok's 8 unsaved wounds dealt. The Arachnarok has 5 left and should lose another 2 next round as it will kill another Kroxigor and between three and eight Skinks, then in the third round it should only suffer 1 wound as it will kill the remaining Kroxigor and can then start piling all of its attacks on to the Skinks that should already be below half strength. The Arachnarok will likely come out of the ordeal with two or one wounds left of its starting eight, remembering though that "Skroxigor" unit was roughly 50 points more than it.
DeleteWINNER - Arachnarok Spider
I'm sorry, but what maths are you referring to exactly? This isn't trying to be rude, but honestly - and this has been done to death on the Lizardmen-centric forums like Lustria Online - the unit just doesn't work as it is intended to. Kroxigor are better off by themselves where they won't don't need to worry about spending extra on Skink "protectors" that act as free combat resolution.
Don't even get me started on what your average, points-equivalent combat block will do to "Skroxigor"....it isn't pretty. 30 Witch Elves deployed 10 wide, 3 deep just as the "Skroxigor" unit will mulch through it in seconds. That's 50 attacks that hit on 3s with re-rolls, wound on 3s with re-rolls of 1s and leave the Skinks with a 5+ and then a 6++. The Witch Elves also have Poisoned Attacks and cost 330 points, 10 points less than that "Skroxigor" unit (chuck in a musician or standard bearer as desired). Of those 50 attacks, roughly 8 will be Poisoned, around 26 should hit, then with re-rolls that should be another 2 Poisons and another eight or so hits for 34 hits plus 10 Poisons. Those hits then turn into roughly 22 wounds that, with re-rolls of 1s, result in another 4 wounds. That is 36 wounds inflicted, with the 5+ armour being failed 24 times, then the 6+ parry being failed 20 times, leaving 20 dead Skinks out of the 24. The 4 remaining Skinks then strike back with 4 attacks, hitting twice and wounding once for one dead Witch Elf. The Kroxigor then strike with their nine attacks needing 4s to hit for 5 hits, then 2s to kill for another 5 dead Witch Elves. The Witch Elves lose 6 models, the "Skroxigor" are left with just 4 Skinks and the 3 Kroxigor out of the 24 Skinks. Bye-bye unit.
I also just wanted to add a few more examples so that what I chose doesn't appear to be "cherry-picking".
DeleteK'daii Destroyer (no upgrades, 15 points under the "Skroxigor" unit) 325 points - The K'daii has no official model but it has been specified and agreed that it should be modeled on the "monster" base, meaning it is 100mm wide - this means all 3 Kroxigor and 14 Skinks can attack it, just like the Arachnarok. With Initiative 5, it will strike before the entire "Skroxigor" unit. With its' Blazing Body special rule, each model in base contact with it suffers an automatic Strength 4 hit at the start of each close combat phase, meaning 7 Skinks will take a hit. This leads to 6 wounds (Toughness 2), leading to a 6+ armour save, failed 5 times, and a 6+ parry save, failed 4 times (we will give the advantage to the Skinks here). That is 4 dead Skinks before the Destroyer attacks. With 6 attacks base +D3 for its special Frenzy, we will use the median result and give it 8 attacks. With Weapon Skill 5 and Strength 7, these go on the Kroxigor, hitting 5 times and wounding 5 times, leading to 5 unsaved wounds caused on the Kroxigor (or one dead) - unless the "Skroxigor" kill the Destroyer in this round of combat, all the Kroxigor will be dead in the next round. The Skinks then strike, needing 6s to hit (Weapon Skill 2 versus Weapon Skill 5) with their 13 attacks (4 of the 7 in the back rank perished) leading to 2 Poisons. With a 4+ ward save, the Destroyer loses 1 wound, going down to 5 wounds remaining. The Kroxigor then strike with their 6 attacks needing 4s to hit (Weapon Skill 3 versus Weapon Skill 5), leading to 3 hits. Strength 7 against Toughness 6 would usually result in 2 wounds inflicted, but as the K'daii special rule (per the FAQ) forces successful to-wound rolls to be re-rolled, we can assume another of these fails, leading to only one wound caused. The K'daii has a 50% chance to pass its 4+ ward save, so either it goes down to 4 Wounds or remains on 5 Wounds. Regardless, it then does D6 hits with its Thunderstomp - we will say 3 to be fair to the "Skroxigor" - at Strength 7, causing another 3 Skink casualties. The Destroyer has caused a total of 12 Wounds while the "Skroxigor" have only done either one or two.
In the next round of combat, the Blazing Body again leads to another 4 Skink casualties, and as mentioned earlier the Destroyer will - assuming average rolls - kill the two remaining Kroxigor, even if it only gets a single attack rather than two from its special Frenzy. The Skinks will do another wound, but with only 13 of the 24 remaining (8 from Blazing Body, 3 from the first Thunderstomp) this will not be enough to kill the Destroyer, reducing it to either 3 or 4 Wounds. The Thunderstomp will then do another few wounds, leading to a won combat in the Destroyer's favour. If we assume the Blazing Body does another 4 Wounds in the next combat, plus the second Thunderstomp and between 7 and 9 attacks hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s and allowing only a parry save, the Skinks are likely to be fully wiped out before they can strike. If they do get to strike, they are unlikely to cause a wound to the Destroyer which will then finish them off with its' Thunderstomp.
WINNER - K'daii Destroyer
Stonehorn (90 points short of the "Skroxigor" unit) 250 points - If we want to actually count stuff like Impact Hits and charge bonuses, the Stonehorn has the Movement advantage with +1 Movement over the "Skroxigor" unit and much more freedom of mobility with its 150x100mm base size, free reforms and wheels, etc. If we include the charge, this leads to 3D3 Impact Hits at Strength 6 which leads to an average of 5 hits, leading to 5 dead Skinks.
DeleteTo the combat itself, the Skinks strike first with the same attacks as against the Destroyer, leading to 14 attacks. Needing 4s to hit, they land 2 Poisons and 5 regular hits, which in turn leads to another single wound. With a 4+ armour save, the Stonehorn passes two saves and is reduced to 5 Wounds from 6 (we round up equal chance fractions). The Stonehorn and its Beast Rider then strike. With 5 attacks at Strength 6 it directs them against the Kroxigor, needing 4s to hit leading to 3 hits, needing 2s to wound leading to a single dead Kroxigor (no armour saves allowed). The Ogre Beast Rider instead attacks the Skinks, needing 3s to hit (Weapon Skill 3 versus Weapon Skill 2), 2s to wound (Strength 4 versus Toughness 2) and allowing a 6+, 6++ save against it - this means 2 hits, 2 wounds and 2 dead Skinks. The Thunderstomp does D6 hits - we will assume this is 3 for now - leading to another 3 dead Skinks. The two Kroxigor strike with 6 attacks needing 4s to hit, leading to 3 hits, with 3s to wound, leading to 2 unsaved wounds inflicted on the Stonehorn. The Stonehorn is left with 3 Wounds out of 6, while it has inflicted a total of 8 unsaved wounds if we don't count the Impact Hits, and 13 unsaved wounds if we count the Impact Hits.
In the subsequent round, the Skinks should do another wound to the Stonehorn leaving it with 2 remaining. Its' attacks will lead to another dead Kroxigor, while the Ogre should kill another 2 Skinks. The remaining Kroxigor strikes back with 3 attacks, leading to 2 hits and 2 wounds for a dead Stonehorn, but not before it also Thunderstomps leading to another 1-6 dead Skinks. This is the first combat the "Skroxigor" unit wins at, though it would have lost 2 of the 3 Kroxigor and approximately 15 Skinks if we go off the closest averages. Considering that the Stonehorn is 250 points compared to the "Skroxigor" 338 (or 340) points, the 90 point deficiency feels justified.
WINNER - "Skroxigor"
Here's the amusing part of my examples though; technically, a horde formation of 10-wide, 3-deep with "Skroxigor" assuming at least 3 Kroxigor in the middle would actually require 10 Skinks to the front, 10 in the "back rank", and 8 Skinks in the middle around the Kroxigor, leading to 28 Skinks rather than 24 required - this is actually a 10 wide and 4 deep formation, not a 10 wide and 3 deep formation. This means there should be less Skink attacks than I originally counted if the Kroxigor want to be in base contact, though we can also assume you would want to put an additional two Kroxigor in the "middle rank" for five Kroxigor and 20 Skinks making up a 10 wide and 4 deep formation (the footprint of mixed units always confuses me, I use my Witch Elves with a Cauldron almost exclusively but still get the measurements and model counts mixed up). This unit would cost 140 for the Skinks plus 250 for the Kroxigor, then another 20 for the musician and standard bearer, leading to a 410 point unit. This gives even more favour to the monsters in each example due to the points differential but also as those extra two Kroxigor actually still don't get to strike unless the other three Kroxigor start dropping, seeing as the width of three - 120mm - still exceeds the maximum width of each monster(s) example used - 100mm.
DeleteJust a note, where I said "6s" to hit in any example, I meant "5s" and the maths should reflect that change - though in each combat where it is relevant/I made the mistake, the monster in question would still emerge victorious.
DeleteIf we add an extra 10 Skinks with Poison to the unit pushing the total cost up to 480 points, we can do an example fight against 2 Frostheart Phoenixes - they are identical in points costs.
If the average roll of the Winds of Magic is 7 (2D6 = 7 on average) or a 3 and a 4 on the dice, each Phoenix will have +1 attack for 5 each. The Phoenixes cause each enemy unit in base contact with them to have Always Strikes Last and -1 Strength (not cumulative), meaning the Skinks and Kroxigor will strike after the Phoenixes and do so at Strength 2 and Strength 6 respectively. The Phoenixes are each mounted on chariot bases or 50mm wide, meaning their total width is 100mm - this means 7 Skinks and 3 Kroxigor can attack them at any one time.
The Phoenixes direct their 10 attacks on the Kroxigor, needing 3s to hit (Weapon Skill 6) and 2s to wound (Strength 6), with 7 hits and 6 wounds on average ignoring the Kroxigor's save for 2 dead Kroxigor. They also Thunderstomp simultaneously with the "Skroxigor" strikes, with the average roll of 2D6 being 7 leading to 6 dead Skinks on average. The 7 Skink attacks need 5s to hit (Weapon Skill 2 versus Weapon Skill 6) for 3 hits on average, 1 of which is Poisoned. The 2 hits do nothing as they are Strength 2 against Toughness 6. The 5+ armour save and 5+ ward save of the Phoenixes should see them stop the wound. The Kroxigor strike with 9 attacks (the other two Kroxigor move over) needing 4s to hit for 5 hits, needing 4s to wound (Strength 6 due to the aura against Toughness 6), leading to 3 wounds rounding up. The armour saves are ignored, meaning the 5+ ward save is failed twice for two unsaved wounds inflicted on the Phoenixes. The net result is 12 unsaved wounds inflicted by the Frosthearts against the "Skroxigor" two unsaved wounds caused.
In the subsequent round of combat, the Frosthearts repeat the trick, killing another two Kroxigor (leaving just one left) and killing another 6 Skinks (leaving 8 Skinks left, though the 6 that die from this Thunderstomp still get to strike). The 3 Skinks not in base contact in the front rank cannot strike, but otherwise with Step Up the remaining 11 Skinks can attack the Frosthearts. This leads to 2 Poisons and 2 regular hits, with just the Poisons actually wounding. We will give the nod to the Skinks and say a Frostheart loses another wound, leaving one on full wounds and the other with 2 wounds left. The remaining Kroxigor should deal 1 wound (3 attacks needing 4s to hit and 4s to wound) which may or may not be saved by the Frosthearts. Regardless, only 8 Skinks and 1 Kroxigor are left, while both Frosthearts remain. The next round sees the Kroxigor killed and the Skinks all but obliterated.
WINNER - Frostheart Phoenixes
If we want to consider that Frosthearts are not intended for direct combats against big enemy combat blocks, Arachnaroks and Stonehorns are mediocre and/or rarely seen because of superior choices in the same slot, Warsphinxes are at their most susceptible against Poisoned Attacks, Kharibdyss' are monster hunters and not unit-killers, while Hydras are absolutely mediocre or worse in the new Dark Elf book, these results are frankly embarrassing for the "Skroxigor" unit. Whether you like it or not, monster hunting is the only thing this unit can somewhat get away with but it will never win a fair fight against the equivalent points in anything - if we use the bumped up 480 point "Skroxigor" unit against 2 Stonehorns, for example, the Stonehorns will win hands down and it will be barely a contest (killing 2 Kroxigor and 10 Skinks per round of combat, suffering roughly 5 unsaved wounds in return, one of which will have to be separate to the other due to the models capable of attacking each Stonehorn) - and that doesn't even include the 3D3 Impact Hits (leading to 5 dead Skinks per Stonehorn) from each Stonehorn if they both charge!
Delete